Saracens sanction

Re: Saracens sanction

steckers 12 Nov 2019 12:25 pm said..

:lol:
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Re: Saracens sanction

colinboag 12 Nov 2019 14:46 pm said..

Spot on OG
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Re: Saracens sanction

jeppy89 12 Nov 2019 15:50 pm said..

DieTrying wrote:
Some interesting stats. The last column even more so: Wages as a % of turnover. Look at Bristol. Methinks yer man Lansdown has even more ego & money than Wray.

Club finances (2017-18) Turnover Profit/Loss Wages (% of turnover)
Bath £18.6m -£2.5m £11.2m (60.2%)
Bristol Bears* £5.3m -£7.2m £8.3m (135.8%)
Exeter Chiefs £20.5m +£0.7m £12.1m (59.0%)
Gloucester £15.8m -£2.2m £11.7m (74.1%)
Harlequins £22.1m -£4.8m £14.2m (64.3%)
Leicester Tigers £20.4m -£1.2m £12.7m (62.3%)
London Irish £9.5m -£2.9m £8.0m (84.2%)
Newcastle Falcons £10.9m -£4.3m £9.6m (88.1%)
Northampton Saints £17.1m -£2.7m £11.6m (67.8%)
Sale Sharks £9.3m -£1.7m £7.3m (78.5%)
Saracens £17.9m -£3.9m £12.6m (70.1%)
Wasps £32.8m -£9.7m £13.4m (40.9%)
Worcester Warriors** £11.5m -£2.0m £11.0m (95.6%)
TOTAL £211.7m -£44.4m £143.2m (67.6%)


Interesting stats, where did these numbers come from? Considering the salary cap is a shade over 7mil before credits, numbers like 12.7mil can't be reconciled by academy credits etc?
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Re: Saracens sanction

jeppy89 12 Nov 2019 15:52 pm said..

also incredible that Wasps can turnover 30mil + and still make a huge loss.
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Re: Saracens sanction

DieTrying 12 Nov 2019 16:12 pm said..

Jeppy: it includes all non playing wages, as they're not split out, which is a shame. Also remember that the 2 marquee players are outside the Cap and you can pay them what you like.
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Re: Saracens sanction

TheOtherJonny 12 Nov 2019 16:52 pm said..

Lebowski wrote:Couldn’t be bothered to post until now because I felt so flat after Saturday. It wasn’t really the result as I actually can’t recall feeling less upset by a loss. It just didn’t seem to matter. I watched a club that has been cheating for years, is still cheating and appears to show no contrition. I just found myself thinking what’s the point? I feel I’m falling out of love with the sport.

Reading this thread I find it both astonishing and depressing that some are defending the cheats. I don’t place any store on the opinions of the likes of Stephen Jones who I have found to be a massively ignorant and sensational journalist. Try disagreeing with him on Twitter and see how quickly you are blocked! Brian Moore on the other hand I have huge respect for.

I’ve already bought my season ticket. Had I not done so I genuinely don’t know if I’d continue to attend matches the way I feel at the moment.


I'm currently dragging myself through all of the comments on this topic (as more of a jonny-come-lately than any other type of jonny) and this one is the one that falls closest to how I feel at the moment. I'm even disappointed in myself :? I'm so tired of people trying to defend what Saracens have done and want it to be done with in a manner that makes the right statement and protects the game (and team) that I have loved for over 50 years.
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Re: Saracens sanction

Graham Cartmell 12 Nov 2019 16:56 pm said..

Theotherjonny wrote:
Lebowski wrote:Couldn’t be bothered to post until now because I felt so flat after Saturday. It wasn’t really the result as I actually can’t recall feeling less upset by a loss. It just didn’t seem to matter. I watched a club that has been cheating for years, is still cheating and appears to show no contrition. I just found myself thinking what’s the point? I feel I’m falling out of love with the sport.

Reading this thread I find it both astonishing and depressing that some are defending the cheats. I don’t place any store on the opinions of the likes of Stephen Jones who I have found to be a massively ignorant and sensational journalist. Try disagreeing with him on Twitter and see how quickly you are blocked! Brian Moore on the other hand I have huge respect for.

I’ve already bought my season ticket. Had I not done so I genuinely don’t know if I’d continue to attend matches the way I feel at the moment.


I'm currently dragging myself through all of the comments on this topic (as more of a jonny-come-lately than any other type of jonny) and this one is the one that falls closest to how I feel at the moment. I'm even disappointed in myself :? I'm so tired of people trying to defend what Saracens have done and want it to be done with in a manner that makes the right statement and protects the game (and team) that I have loved for over 50 years.

Crikey, I didn’t realise you were over 70. Obviously had an easy paper round
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Re: Saracens sanction

Fat Taff 12 Nov 2019 17:18 pm said..

Can anyone be absolutely specific about what Saracens did and what they were charged with as a consequence?
No, it's never been released, so across this thread there's an awful lot of emotive language based on supposition. Interestingly, one fact that has been released was that the panel found their actions reckless, not deliberate, and that seems somewhat overlooked with the emotion.
If Saracens are the only club guilty of not following the cap rules to the letter of the law( rules that have been criticised for lacking complete direction and clarity) I'll be staggered, and if this is upheld I won't be surprised if they bring legal action to insist all other clubs financial affairs are looked into with the same level of detail.
As for those calling for them to be stripped of their titles for not following the rules, that's not in the rules. Follow all the rules not just the ones you disagree with? Some would say that sounds familiar.
For what is worth, my view is that Wray is one of the good guys and some of the language he's been subjected to is unnecessary. It's not as if he's a serial liar in the Johnson or Farage mode and it's equally unbelievable to think that they wouldn't have sought the best advice available to clarify their own position.
As I said at the start of the thread, this is a long way from being done, and given the genuine lack of detail available, it's not a straightforward judgement.
Not the commonly held view , I know, but it's how I see it without publication of detailed information
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Re: Saracens sanction

chumba 12 Nov 2019 17:24 pm said..

For the purposes of political balance i think FT needed to add that Wray is not promising to reverse cancel the result of the Brexit referendum, nor is he an avowed terrorist sympathiser........
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Re: Saracens sanction

Up the jumper 12 Nov 2019 17:28 pm said..

Fat Taff wrote:Interestingly, one fact that has been released was that the panel found their actions reckless, not deliberate, and that seems somewhat overlooked with the emotion.


That's not quite correct. It is a claim made by Wray but not corroborated.
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