The English vs The Welsh

Re: The English vs The Welsh

madders 13 Aug 2019 20:07 pm said..

CMGC....what l am suggesting is that these players are held in awe by many, including pundits, the media etc., maybe not that much better than others who don’t seem to get the rub.
Believe me, if Itoje tries some of his tactics in Japan might find himself getting a 10 minute rest or worse.
Farrell, great kicker but his type of play greatly limits what tactics England use, and his frustration as shown in 6N can turn to dodgey tackling.
I can think of two props who have certainly performed exceptionally well this season, but alas didn’t catch Eddie’s eye.
That’s what l think.
Similarly, l never understand how Robshaw got an England cap let alone captaincy.
I started off with nothing and I’ve still got most of it left.
Posts: 2576
madders
Hall of Famer

Re: The English vs The Welsh

vitesse 13 Aug 2019 20:34 pm said..

madders wrote:CMGC....what l am suggesting is that these players are held in awe by many, including pundits, the media etc., maybe not that much better than others who don’t seem to get the rub.
Believe me, if Itoje tries some of his tactics in Japan might find himself getting a 10 minute rest or worse.
Farrell, great kicker but his type of play greatly limits what tactics England use, and his frustration as shown in 6N can turn to dodgey tackling.
I can think of two props who have certainly performed exceptionally well this season, but alas didn’t catch Eddie’s eye.
That’s what l think.
Similarly, l never understand how Robshaw got an England cap let alone captaincy.


To an extent, I agree. Faz is a great kicker, Captain, HA, no way, no plan b, not good enough. Itoje is another - great player but allowed too much leeway by ref's, WILL get found out in Japan and will be taking a 10 min rest allowing the oppo's to profit. Robshaw was a good flanker - and I can see why he got capped, he was decent in attack and good in defence - always made yards and stopped most attacks.
My opinion on selection is EJ is given a pool of players to pick from and any others he wants, he has to justify. I know it sounds daft but why else are so many good players being ignored...?
Posts: 209  Location: Alicante Province, within easy reach of the airport......!
vitesse
Vice-Captain

Re: The English vs The Welsh

Not1eyed 13 Aug 2019 20:53 pm said..

It’s just possible that EJ doesn’t share your opinion. It is possible for people to have different views on a player. Robshaw prime example, personally I think he’s a fantastic player and would have him in my team everyday of the week, but I accept that you might feel differently.
I don’t think there is an international team/ coach in the world that wouldn’t select Owen Farrell
Posts: 1596
Not1eyed
Hall of Famer

Re: The English vs The Welsh

madders 13 Aug 2019 22:02 pm said..

Yes, in the away game at Quins, Robshaw was outstanding....NOT. Another average player, the selection of whom ensure England’s inability to win any major trophy.

Incidentally, that afternoon he was accompanied by Clifford and Dombrandt, the former another recent England cap and the latter the latest best thing since sliced bread. Oh dear.

Our boys must have just been lucky, as Morgan, Kriel and Ackermann kicked their arses.
I started off with nothing and I’ve still got most of it left.
Posts: 2576
madders
Hall of Famer

Re: The English vs The Welsh

CMGC 13 Aug 2019 23:00 pm said..

I think the difference here is that whilst you and I may agree and dissagree on the merits of certain players that is all fine and we all have opinions.
However when more than one highly experience Int coach selects certain players above all other options for major tours etc. one has to stop and consider that they probably know more than we do about what is required. EJ is not the only one to often promote the idea that club rugby is very different to Int rugby and you can be good at one but not the other.
Posts: 3982  Location: In the sticks
CMGC
Moderator

Re: The English vs The Welsh

madders 14 Aug 2019 07:27 am said..

Wibble. :lol:
Rugby is rugby is rugby.
So Robshaw, Clifford and Dombrandt’s performance against us at Quins has nothing to do with their ability or skills because that was Club rugby.
Incidentally the referee that day was a world renowned International.

It reminds me of the story of the Emperor’s New Clothes.....everyone is scared to say what they see in front of them!
I started off with nothing and I’ve still got most of it left.
Posts: 2576
madders
Hall of Famer

Re: The English vs The Welsh

Peanutcoxy 14 Aug 2019 08:36 am said..

To a large extent I’m with Madders on this discussion. I disagree with the rugby is rugby is rugby line though as so much is different when you go up a level eg Willi’s dart towards the try line would probably have been scored in the GP but defences are better so he had to recycle.

Nevertheless it is easy for all of us to get sucked in to what we constantly, see hear and read in the media about players. Unless we see these guys all the time, how else do we judge? There is no doubt that OF, MI and others have great skill sets and I am the first to applaud when it goes well. However, as EJ constantly tells us, everyone has weaknesses but the media rarely focusses on them as it doesn’t suit their agendas.

As always it’s a balancing act weighing up the style of play a coach wants to play against the skill sets available. If Wilson fulfills those requirements at 8 ahead of Morgan then so be it. We might disagree because of how Morgan has performed for Glos, but if that style isn’t what EJ is looking for, so be it.

Human nature makes it easy to criticise when it goes badly but over-praise when it goes well. Some get the benefit of the latter because of their ability but get away with the former for the same reasons. Each to our own I guess. I don’t rate Beauden Barrett as highly as most others for the reasons above but there’s no doubt he’s a very good player.
Last edited by Peanutcoxy on 14 Aug 2019 08:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
The older I get the faster I was
Posts: 1589  Location: Brockworth
Peanutcoxy
Hall of Famer

Re: The English vs The Welsh

Porky 14 Aug 2019 08:38 am said..

Madders, Get over yourself.

Most coaches will decide based on THEIR knowledge and experience, not yours. I fully accept your right to hold and express your opinions and your support of Glaws players does you credit but please stop trying to tell me and others whether we are allowed to respect and acknowledge players from other clubs.

The only choices EJ has made that I fundamentally disagree with are the exclusion of Danny Cipriani and only taking 2 each of tight head props and scrum half (although I have some reservations about those returning from significant injuries - Underhill, Mako V & Jack Nowell; replacements are available, however).

Deciding three back row players are rubbish based on one game (when their front five was comprehensively outplayed) is shrill nonsense and, though I agree that both Clifford and Dombrandt are over-rated, they have huge potential; Robshaw is now past his best but has been an extremely fine but not flashy player.

Now, where did I leave my tin hat? :D
Time you enjoy wasting is never wasted.
Posts: 1127  Location: Holding on to the floor
User avatar
Porky
Hall of Famer

Re: The English vs The Welsh

Gb83 14 Aug 2019 09:31 am said..

Porky wrote:Madders, Get over yourself.

Most coaches will decide based on THEIR knowledge and experience, not yours. I fully accept your right to hold and express your opinions and your support of Glaws players does you credit but please stop trying to tell me and others whether we are allowed to respect and acknowledge players from other clubs.

The only choices EJ has made that I fundamentally disagree with are the exclusion of Danny Cipriani and only taking 2 each of tight head props and scrum half (although I have some reservations about those returning from significant injuries - Underhill, Mako V & Jack Nowell; replacements are available, however).

Deciding three back row players are rubbish based on one game (when their front five was comprehensively outplayed) is shrill nonsense and, though I agree that both Clifford and Dombrandt are over-rated, they have huge potential; Robshaw is now past his best but has been an extremely fine but not flashy player.

Now, where did I leave my tin hat? :D


Quinn’s also beat us at home quite easily. Robshaw and Clifford international days are over but there is no doubting Dombrant is a very very good player and only in his 1st year as a pro, he’s arguably been their best forward all season and I think justified being considered.

I also think Morgan is proven and should have had more chances but when you look at the England squad there isn’t many I would kick out for him, England are spoilt for choices all of a sudden.

B Vunipola is the best carrier there is along with Manu, these guys will always have a place.
Posts: 1529
Gb83
Hall of Famer

Re: The English vs The Welsh

Gloucester Mute 14 Aug 2019 12:54 pm said..

Madders - You are certainly able and allowed to criticise EJ's choices of player - after all it is a democracy and free world. Interesting how you are a relatively lone voice in your criticism of certain players + anyone from Harlequins per se !!

I would still be really interested to see your best England 23-squad from anyone eligible. That may back-up your criticism OR not. Too simply criticise and not suggest alternatives does appear rather simple and silly...….
Nothing wrong with free speech or having an opinion - as long as it matches mine !!
Posts: 1369  Location: Dursley - At the heart of the County
Gloucester Mute
Hall of Famer
PreviousNext

Return to Gloucester Rugby

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], coleser, ElverEater, gmorgan131285, kingstanley, Phil, Stinking Bishop and 9 guests